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(The Epic Saga)

By Daniel Throssell Published on Dec 2, 2021

r/copywriting has never liked me … and the feeling is kinda mutual.

For months I railed against them in my email list, warning my thousands of readers about the bad advice given out on that subreddit.

r/copywriting would occasionally hit back, with users insulting and mocking me in several threads. 

Then on 3 May 2021, it happened…

r/copywriting permanently banned me, and all mentions of me:

psa reddit ban posts

For a time, they even enshrined it in their rules:

reddit copywriting ban rules

Well — now you can read the whole saga in one place!

Below is a collection of some of my emails about r/copywriting over the years.

You’ll see how I’ve consistently railed against the bad advice in r/copywriting…

How the moderator decided to ban me from being even mentioned in the sub…

How — in one of the strangest twists — I eventually befriended him, without him overturning the ban…

And how my ban eventually spread … so that other famous copywriting communities on the Internet started banning me.

Read it all as it happened in this email anthology below…

r/copywriting just dissed me. I'll diss you right back, you dirty cesspool

r/copywriting just dissed me. I'll diss you right back, you dirty cesspool

Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on October 3, 2020
Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on October 3, 2020

I have been waiting for this day my whole life.


In fact, what happened earlier today may be the highest point in my career.


Because this morning, I literally shouted with joy at my laptop when I discovered …  


I finally got dissed anonymously on Reddit.


(No need to Google, I’ll give you the link below.)


Look. EVERYBODY knows you’re nobody until some troll on Reddit has dismissively scorned you. 


Well, today I got my big break. And big surprise, my first anonymous hater came from that dirty cesspool …


r/copywriting 🥳


Ohhhhh … r/copywriting.


Look, I hate a lot of copywriting advice on the Internet. But r/copywriting is especially awful.


So when I saw myself mentioned there … I have to say, a grin crept over my face. Because it gave me a great chance to share my long-held thoughts on that sub.


Oh, what’s that? You don’t frequent r/copywriting?


Lucky you. 


Here, let me paint the picture for you.


Imagine a copywriting group where … 


1. There are zero barriers to entry or quality requirements — literally anyone can join and post literally anything

2. People are entirely anonymous, with no proof of actual results or success needed to share your opinion

3. Instead, the group operates on a ‘social proof’ system where what is popular gets upvoted rather than what is proven to work

4. Everything comes slathered with a thick layer of “tall poppy syndrome” where anything impressive must be instantly scorned and shot down, unless approved by one of the “regulars” (there’s that social proof again)


Put it all together, and what have you got?



A steaming pile of r/copywriting!


Now, look. I don’t mean to speak badly of all the successful A-list copywriters who spend their time trawling r/copywriting giving advice to newbies—




Hold on a second.


I’m just getting new info, please stand by …


(I frown and press two fingers against an earpiece.)


Ladies and gentlemen … I’ve just been told that there are in fact, uh, NO successful A-list copywriters who spend their time trawling r/copywriting giving advice to newbies.


Apologies for that.


Well … who are these unsung heroes doling out advice, then?


Answer: people like Fred the agency copywriter, who paid thousands of dollars for ad school, worked away for a decade and a half at an agency being underpaid and under-respected, and now craves recognition.


Fred is bitter. So he spends his free time “warning” the upstarts on r/copywriting about how “hard” copywriting is, and telling them that any online copywriting course is a “scam”. Instead, they should read Hey Whipple, Squeeze This and start building a professional portfolio. And then maybe, in 15 years, they too could be earning $18,000 a year writing slogans for an ad agency.


Of course, the newbies are keen to oblige. Between posting about “where do I start as a copywriter?” … or asking for “quick fedback on a copy I wrote” … or “why can’t I get any jobs :(” … well, they have plenty of time to try and soak up some wisdom from the old pros.


Sheesh. I wish I were exaggerating.


reddit post




Look. You want a copywriting group? 


At least go to one actively moderated and guided by an actual, skilled, proven copywriter. Preferably, one you have to pay to get into.


Or, an even better idea:


Get off the groups and actually start doing stuff. 


Score some wins. Land some clients. Build a list. Write emails. Test your copy. Make actual sales. Get your name out there. Innovate. Contribute to copywriting. Invent your own ideas (like I did with my Parallel Welcome Sequence, which was what got me dissed on Reddit in the first place). And so on.


Whatever you do … 


Don’t take your copy advice from u/DirtyOlFred1313 on r/copywriting whose claim to fame is that he “mentored under one of Parris Lampropoulos’s copy cubs” once.


Sadly, that is NOT a made-up epithet


Anyway. Enough subreddit-slamming fun for now.


You want to see the thread, don’t you?


Somebody from my email list (no, not me) shared my Parallel Welcome Sequence blog post to try and promote me, and it got downvoted hard.

I appreciated the critic who said this about my blog post:


alex luchian reddit post


I actually think this guy is quite a good copywriter for an illiterate person. (I did not actually use that “technique” he mentions.)


But I liked this one most of all:


medoane reddit post


😂 😂 😂


Too good! I’m thinking of framing it.


(also I know you were trying to be facetious but your names actually do suck compared to mine lollllll)


My only regret is that there were only a handful of these. So, if there are any other r/copywriting users reading this, please, feel free to pile in with your best insults. I can’t wait!


Daniel Throssell


r/copywriting strikes again

r/copywriting strikes again

Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on December, 22, 2020
Close Up 3

Daniel Throssell

Originally sent on Oct 17, 2021

I couldn’t resist, that sub is just too easy a target.


Look at this post I found recently on r/copywriting:



“”Imagine I want to make a bad breath product. I want this product to be something people feel fine about sharing online. Maybe even proud to share (which is usually tied to people making themselves look good / social status). I also want to make the brand fun and lighthearted.


Do you think its better to angle it as:


a.) If you have bad breath, you are not alone – over 30% of Americans have it. People notice your bad breath.




b.) You have bad breath – we all have bad breath. Some worse than others, but we all l have it. Time to optimize your breath with X.”

Okay. Firstly — wow.


That is your tagline?


“Time to optimise your breath”?


What are these agencies teaching you people?


But hey.


You think that’s bad?


Wait till you see r/copywriting’s top-rated answers to the question …


“Don’t talk about bad breath at all. Talk about how your product makes breath amazing, sexy and irresistible. Focus on the positive glamorous aspects, people with bad breath will connect the dots for you in their minds.”


Wow. What great advice. In your ad, don’t even mention the SINGLE, GIANT, BURNING PAIN that would motivate someone to spend money on the product. Now that is a stroke of genius. Someone give this man an eye patch and call him Ogilvy!


“Another angle is to market it as a product for *someone they know* who has terrible breath. “Got a smelly husband? Get him X””


Right. Market it as a gift that basically says “I find you repulsive.” Why didn’t I think of that amazing idea? … hey, why is my terrible-ad spidey-sense tingling?


“How about you show a plume of green smoke coming out of a mouth but then the camera backs up and the mouth is actually a tattoo around a butthole and it represents butthole breath.”





… idk what you’ve been smoking lately man but i think you need to take it easy over the holidays y’know


I’m sorry, I … may need a moment to recover from this one.


[Editorial note: At this point in writing the email, I literally had to stop because I was doubled over so hard laughing at the utter stupidity of the last response. Hayley walked by and noticed. She asked: “Oh, please. Are you laughing at your own jokes again?” Sometimes that happens. But this time, no. No I am not. I am simply in shock at the guy who literally suggested a … mouth tattooed on … a butthole.]




This is why asking the Internet for copy advice is a stupid idea.


So, move over, r/copywriting.


Here’s my two cents to the questioner:


Why do you want your campaign to be “shareable”?


Why not make sure it …


Uh, what’s that word … oh, right …




I suggest this guy pick up a copy of two things:


1) The classic book Scientific Advertising, which should correct this silly nonsense about writing ads that “people feel good to share”; and  


2) [Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.]


Definitely a better ROI on your time than trawling r/copywriting …


… unless you’re using it for your daily email inspiration, I guess.


Daniel Throssell


Reddit's most-hated copywriter

Reddit’s most-hated copywriter

Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on Feb 5, 2021
Close Up 3

Daniel Throssell

Originally sent on Feb 5, 2021

Yesterday I noticed something strange going on with my emails …


I’d gotten way more subscribers than usual overnight.




I hadn’t had any podcasts come out, or launched anything new …


And then I saw an email from one of my readers that explained it.


He alerted me to a Reddit pile-on, currently in progress, on me and my Parallel Welcome Sequence, in my favourite subreddit of all …




Did I ever tell you how much I LOVE r/copywriting?




Well, I’ll save it for another time.


A true gem of our times, is all I’ll say.


But as soon as I saw them talking about me (again), I grabbed my popcorn and started egging on the haters.


I’ll link you to the thread below.


But for now, let’s have some fun by looking at my favourite comments.


Here’s the top-voted comment, from u/cornelmanu, criticising my Parallel Welcome Sequence blog post


cornelmanu reddit post

No, you nitwit.


I didn’t say I “increased engagement by 200%”.


In fact, my claim about getting “200% engagement” has literally nothing to do with any test results.


The whole point is the Parallel Welcome Sequence adds an extra set of webpages between the emails … therefore literally doubling the amount of copy people read 🤦‍♂️


Whatever. One thing was clear:


This u/cornelmanu guy absolutely hated my blog post.


So much that …


… he then proceeded to sign up for my emails

manu cornel sign up

Just wait till he discovers that I brag more than I bring value!


Okay, one numpty down.


Moving along …


The next person offered four reasons why my emails suck:

yutsuke reddit post what what what

4.harden up buttercup Yutsuke


The next pro copywriter off the rank was u/bigdogxxl:

bigdogxxl reddit post

That first line … I just can’t even😂


lol, yeah. Nobody is reading that “rambling sh*t”.


ESPECIALLY not the 500+ organic subscribers it’s brought in since I published it:

subscribers screenshot

Imagine if I’d asked this muppet’s feedback before publishing it?


Boys and girls: this is why you don’t listen to r/copywriting for anything to do with building a copywriting business.


Actually, wait, no …


Maybe THIS is why you shouldn’t listen to r/copywriting for anything to do with building a copywriting business:

murderfuk reddit post

Just for fun, I looked at the last 3 posts this “u/murderfuk” guy wrote on Reddit. They were, in their entirety:

• “This was either made by a 6 year old, or English is your 4th language”

• “Belly butt-hole”

• “There*
(in response to someone who wrote ‘their’)


So yeah … this one cut me deep.


But perhaps the strangest comment …


… was the guy who said that his client saw my blog post, loved my idea, and then asked HIM to write her a Parallel Welcome Sequence.


In his words:


“She approved an outline for the emails. I wrote the emails. She takes weeks to look at them. And when she does, she wanted rewrites.


Basically, it was a dumpster fire of a project and has made me hate this parallel welcome sequence.”




So let me get this straight:


Your client loved my PWS idea, and asked you to try it …


You wrote some emails …


The client hated your emails …


And that made you hate my technique?




Ahhh, I’m having too much fun with these guys.


(Just to be clear, they started it, not me.)


There’s a bunch more comments, but at this point I can’t tell which are real and which are my readers trolling me.


But yes, r/copywriting …


Please continue to hate on me.


Your efforts greatly amuse me.


And like I said at the very start of this email … they usefully grow my email list.


So rage, rage away!


In the meantime, since I am so “super arrogant and braggy”, I’ve decided to award myself yet another obnoxious epithet:


“Reddit’s Most Hated Copywriter” 🏆


(It will go well with the World’s Most Amazing Copywriter trophy 🏆  I got from Ben Settle and John Carlton the other day)


And I would like to thank all my friends in r/copywriting for it. I couldn’t have done it without you guys 🥲


As a way of thanking you …


[Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.]


Daniel Throssell

r/copywriting has a new mayor ... and he means business!

r/copywriting has a new mayor … and he means business!

Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on March 1, 2021
Close Up 3

Daniel Throssell

Originally sent on March 1, 2021

Could this be the beginning of a new era for Copywriting’s Worst Internet Cesspool?


Word on the copywriting web is that last week, r/copywriting unanimously elected* u/eolithic_frustum as its new, sole dictator moderator.


*Actually I don’t know how he got the job, nor do I really care to find out. I just saw a thread saying he was the new mod.


But calling him the ‘mod’ sounds lame, so I’m arbitrarily calling him:


“The Mayor of r/copywriting”


And apparently, he meant business.


In his first week, he got busy setting about on reforms to drain the swamp …


• He wrote a new FAQ page.

• He rewrote the subreddit rules.

• He started arbitrating discussions that got out of hand.

• He began posting higher-quality content as an example of the kinds of posts he wanted to see.


Oh, and … he even wrote about me!


(Seriously. Someone posted about my Parallel Welcome Sequence again. He replied, saying it was “admittedly unique” but asking why it wasn’t more popular if it was so profitable. Answer: Because other people are boring, unimaginative and lazy? And I don’t optimise for short-term profit … I optimise for long-term relationships.)


Of course, the power transition was not without its drama.


As I read comments on the announcement, several people were not so happy with their new Mayor.


So …


Will it work out?


Will the new Mayor drain the swamp?


Will there be a coup?


Will u/persuasivepage seize control of r/copywriting in a bloody revolution?


Nobody really knows.


One thing I do know is that, whatever happens …


[Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.]


Daniel Throssell



Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on May 4, 2021
Close Up 3

Daniel Throssell

Originally sent on May 5, 2021

Check out this announcement by the moderator of r/copywriting overnight …







Apparently the raging success of my ‘Referral Magnet’ strategy has led to too many people promoting me on Reddit.


Mr. Mayor thinks this is suspicious, or that it’s me somehow (lol).


So … link posts to my site are now banned.


To my knowledge, this makes me the first COPYWRITER to be banned from being linked to in R/COPYWRITING. 


This is one of my proudest moments 🥲


Here’s a cartoon that reader Philip Riggs sent me after finding out (it’s pretty much a 100% accurate depiction of the moment I got banned):


😂 😂 😂


A few users rightly pointed out that this post was better free advertising than any links could do.


Besides, I’m not too fussed anyway.


The leads I got from r/copywriting were always, well … r/copywriting users.


(If you know what I mean.)


But it DOES show one thing … 


The power of my ‘Referral Magnet’ strategy.


That is a strategy I have been using (with great success) to grow my email list.


And today’s development is exactly as planned … it’s all part of it.


The ‘Referral Magnet’ strategy is


[Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.]


Daniel Throssell

Boy, r/copywriting's mod sure is UGLY

Boy, r/copywriting's mod sure is UGLY

Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on May 26, 2021
Close Up 3

Daniel Throssell

Originally sent on May 26, 2021

Remember a few weeks ago, I became the first copywriter to get banned from being linked to in r/copywriting?


Well … I managed to track down the identity of the moderator who did it.


And I sent him an email with my … thoughts.


And he replied with some … thoughts of his own.


And before either of us knew it …


We’d set up a Coffeezilla-style call to, erm, ‘resolve’ our differences.


That call happened last night.


I was unsure how it would go.


But I gotta tell you, when I took one look at the guy’s face …


He was the UGLIEST sucker I’ve ever laid eyes on.


And you wanna know the worst part?


The worst part of it all was …


… I’m … lying.


He wasn’t exactly ugly.


(That was actually a subject line angle HE suggested for this email  😂)


Nor were we antagonistic.


Actually, we hit it off pretty well in private … despite being ‘sworn enemies’ in public.


It turns out Sean (his real name) was, quietly, one of Agora’s top-performing back-end copywriters in 2020. He just doesn’t do the self-promotion thing as much as other copywriters *cough* me like to do.


And so we lined up a call to talk … copywriting.


Here are some of the best points I can remember off the top of my head…


• Though we worked in different countries, we both agreed that there is a trend in financial copywriting toward honest, ethical and authentic copy versus the “make-a-fortune-now” style that has been used in the past — largely because regulators are paying more attention.

• There is no ‘right answer’ for anything to do with copywriting. Everything we know is the result of specific testing under specific circumstances at a specific time. Copywriters should stop chasing the ‘right answer’ and instead adapt this mindset of testing to DISCOVER what will work now.

• Sean did challenge me on the idea that a personal brand voice is right for EVERY company. I conceded that might be the case, but just because nobody else in an industry had ever done it, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t TRY one.

• One of the most valuable things a DR copywriter can have is experience across the breadth of a whole organisation — not just the copy, but also understanding editorial, customer retention, customer service, and so on.

• The big problem with most people’s approach to market research is the ‘one-size-fits-all’ approach that assumes you should do the SAME kind of research for a big job vs. a small one. Sean had checked out my course Market Detective and was impressed with how I turned the process into a graded, step-by-step system.

• The #1 most important aspect of copywriting is the idea of CONTEXT. Nobody’s template is going to work as well for you as it did for them. You are in a different market, with a different product, at a different time. The most valuable thing you can do as a copywriter is to be able to analyse the unique product-market-timing problem in front of you, and generate a custom, contextualised solution that’s not based on any cookie-cutter solution.

• The three things I would recommend any copywriter trying to ‘break in’ do are: to start building and emailing their own list; get on Upwork and begin winning copywriting jobs; and spend time building relationships that will pay off in future.


There was a whole lot more … but that’s all I can remember for now.


Daniel Throssell


What my copywriting arch-enemy taught me about market research this morning

What my copywriting arch-enemy taught me about market research this morning

Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on Jul 9, 2021
Close Up 3

Daniel Throssell

Originally sent on Jul 9, 2021

“Actually, for my most successful sales letter … I spent 7.5 months doing nothing but research.”


These shocking words were made even more shocking by the man who told them to me:


My copywriting arch-enemy …


Sean Macintyre …

the evil moderator of r/copywriting.


Yes, the same one that banned my links from that sub.


Yet despite our, erm, disagreement about whether my links should be allowed in his Reddit …


I have to admit that Sean has a pretty good track record as a working copywriter.


He was, after all, Agora Financial’s top-grossing back-end copywriter last year … largely because of one promo he wrote that crushed it.


And so, this morning …


I extended an olive branch and interviewed him on his market research process.


His insight on what it’s like to write for Agora at the highest levels was downright fascinating.


One example was when he said:


“At a certain level it’s no longer the client giving you a brief and saying, ‘go write this’. You’re now your own analyst; you’re your own researcher. You have to do your own thing to FIND the stuff that’s going to sell, rather than having it given to you … you have to do some work.”


There’s a lot of insight there, but one thing it says is this:


At the highest levels of copywriting, the client ceases to be a good resource for your market research … and you’re on your own.


Sean and I talked a lot about what the market research process actually looks like at that level of copywriting.


(Including some of the actual TV shows he watches to get a feel for his market, and how he combines his own personal reading with his ‘feel’ for the market to know when a big idea will work.)


He also mentioned — as I said above — how for his most successful promo, he spent nearly 8 entire months doing NOTHING but research (and in our interview, he even shared what he was actually doing during that time).


However, we also both agreed:


The kind of research he does is NOT necessary for most copywriters when they’re starting out.


And this is a fundamental part of …


[Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.]


Daniel Throssell

r/copywriting's resident nihilist

r/copywriting’s resident nihilist

Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on Jul 15, 2021
Close Up 3

Daniel Throssell

Originally sent on Jul 15, 2021

There was a thread on r/copywriting the other day titled:


“What is the worst advice you have seen people give to beginners about copywriting?”


(I could talk about the irony of this thread being discussed on r/copywriting … but, the mod reads my emails now so I should play nice 🤭)


Anyway, the answers weren’t particularly notable …


Until this one:







… uh …






(Though if you seriously feel that copywriting is ‘suffering’, isn’t visiting r/copywriting like … some form of Reddit self-flagellation?)


At any rate, I disagree with u/FriedrichNietzsche on this.


Writing a good sales email should be fun.


And … the quality of your copy is certainly NOT meaningless.


While the quality of any ONE email might not matter so much … knowing how to write and send great emails consistently is an extremely valuable skill for a copywriter.


Consistent, good emails build brands.


(Case in point: me.)


And tomorrow (fingers crossed), I’ll be …


[Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.]


Daniel Throssell


The guys at r/copywriting are just a parody of themselves now

The guys at r/copywriting are just a parody of themselves now

Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on Jul 29, 2021
Close Up 3

Daniel Throssell

Originally sent on Jul 29, 2021

Just look at r/copywriting’s new Rule #9:


“Daniel Throssell and all discussions related to Daniel Throssell are permanently banned from r/copywriting.”


Yeah … except in the sidebar 🤷‍♂️


Seriously though, I actually greatly appreciate r/copywriting.


Not only do they give me free advertising …


But, browsing it also provides me many topics for emails if I’m feeling uninspired.


(Although that might be hard now that I am apparently personally banned from the sub, as well as mentions of my name…)


In fact, I truly believe Reddit is one of the greatest gifts to modern copywriters …


if you know how to use it.


Which is a funny coincidence, because …


[Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.]


I believe it’s the biggest game-changer for a freelance copywriter.


Of course, you won’t hear about it on r/copywriting, so you’ll have to … 


[Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.]


Daniel Throssell

My act of random kindness to r/copywriting

My act of random kindness to r/copywriting

Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on Nov 5, 2021
Close Up 3

Daniel Throssell

Originally sent on Nov 5, 2021
r/copywriting and I famously don’t get along well. They’ve permanently banned me from even being mentioned there …   The mod (last time I interviewed him) confirmed we were still sworn mutual enemies …   And the sub attracts people like the one I saw the other day, who literally wrote a post titled:  

“Is it against the ethics of the industry

to do fake reviews?” 


(PLZ HALP I WAS BORN WITHOUT A MORAL COMPASS)   So … I don’t usually have a lot of time for that sub.   But …   I am a Christian.   And Jesus said to love your enemies.   (I mean, he meant it in a far more serious sense, but I’m sure he wouldn’t disapprove of me loving my internet-copywriting-enemies either)   And so …


Today I am going to help

a random person on r/copywriting.

  Because goodness knows … this person reeeeeally needs it.   Well, then …   Step right up, lucky Redditor who wrote this sales page lead and asked for feedback:  



A Complete Masterclass to Master your Fertility 

Take the guesswork out of baby-making while optimising your chances 

  Take control, don’t be controlled by your fertility journey. With no straightforward answers and contradicting advice, falling pregnant can feel like a whole lot of guesswork and finger crossing. My Fertility Masterclass is now open for enrolment – designed to give you everything you need to take control of your fertility while optimising your chances at creating a healthy baby.   


  😔   Picture me now as an old Japanese sensei, shaking his head sadly.   “My student … I am … disappoint!”   So much writing here …    But so little persuasion.   “A Complete Masterclass To Master Your Fertility”?   “Take the guesswork out of baby-making while optimising your chances”?   What is this gibberish that no would-be mother has ever uttered in her entire life?   No, no, no.   This simply will not do.   I mean, in literally two seconds of thinking, I was able to come up with a headline that would crush the one here:  

“Can’t Get Pregnant?

Here’s Why.” 


(I SwIpEd ThIs HeAdLiNe FrOm A FaMoUs SaLeS LeTtEr — lol, no I didn’t, I thought of it myself, because I am not Bocky)


That is all I need to tell you to make this 100% better.


Now go and rewrite your ad from there.


And one more piece of advice:


The reason this copy sucks is because the person writing it obviously has NO idea of the market.

  Have they ever heard a would-be parent, trying to get pregnant, saying “it feels like a whole lot of guesswork and finger crossing”?   Do those people complain about being “controlled by” their “fertility journey”?   Heck no.   This, kids, is why market research is SO IMPORTANT.   And why I have put my entire philosophy on it … [Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.] As you’ll see…  

My entire “staged” approach to market research is unlike any you have EVER seen before.

  (I can say that with confidence, because … I invented it 😜)   It’s so effective that even u/eolithic_frustum — the moderator of r/copywriting — has been caught on the record saying he approved of my novel approach.   (Not that he will tell you that, because he hates me)   But suffice it to say:   If you are a freelance copywriter … [Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.]   Daniel Throssell 

Reddit's u/murderfuk FINALLY agrees with me on something!

Reddit’s u/murderfuk FINALLY agrees with me on something!

Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on November 22, 2021
Close Up 3

Daniel Throssell

Originally sent on Nov 22, 2021

One of my fave characters from r/copywriting is the ever-colourful maverick:




Anyone who frequents r/copywriting is aware of his antics …


But basically, he’s renowned for leaving short, grumpy, and often rather insulting remarks on posts.


(Including — you might remember — a dismissive “what a dumb idea” about MY Parallel Welcome Sequence concept.)


Personally? I like to picture him as a grumpy middle-aged dude dwelling in his elderly mum’s basement.


But in a shocking twist …


For once …

I’ve found I agree with him. 


It happened today.


There was a post in r/copywriting today titled:


“Step by Step email Copywriting course ?” 


And as you can already tell from the capitalisation and space before the question mark … it was not written by a native.


It was asking for recommendations on courses that would teach him EVERYTHING about email copywriting.


And right at the bottom of the answers …


Downvoted into oblivion and hidden …


Was an answer by u/murderfuk.


I clicked to view it … and found a delightfully amusing exchange: 



u/muderfuk (-8 votes) 

Finish learning English first


Non-Native OP (1 vote) 

I’m learning English and copy both, this way I can utilise time and I will be able to learn multiple things in same time. By the way thanks for your advice


u/murderfuk (-5 votes) 

That is the worst idea I’ve ever heard


Non-Native OP (0 votes) 

Is there anything wrong in this ? If you have any better suggestion regarding learning this skill please let me know, I will be more than happy to hear it.


u/murderfuk (-10 votes) 

Get the idea of writing in English for money out of your head. Immerse yourself in the English language and American or UK culture (whichever market you are currently trying to scam money out of) for a number of years. Once you have 100% absorbed the language and culture then go ahead and learn to write persuasively.


u/muderfuk (-3 votes) 

I’d love to see anybody downvoting me here to give this guy a job. Makes a post asking “can I learn English in 2 months?” Then asks for email copywriting courses.



Hey, I’m not a fan of the guy generally …



But the man has a point!!! 


Upvote the copywriters with terrible English as much as you want … but copywriters don’t get paid in Reddit upvotes.


Trying to learn copywriting at the same time as you are learning basic English is crazy talk (if you’re trying to write copy in English, that is — totally fine if you are writing in your native tongue).


Still, I’m going to leave u/murderfuk to fight his own battles there.


For now, I have my OWN answer to the question:


If you want to learn email copywriting …


[Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.]


Daniel Throssell

Why Bond Halbert blacklisted me

Why Bond Halbert blacklisted me

Close Up 3
Daniel Throssell
Originally sent on Dec 6, 2021
Close Up 3

Daniel Throssell

Originally sent on Dec 6, 2021

I never thought I would see the day that a Halbert would even know who I was … let alone ban me.


But — here we are! 😁


Because a reader posted this in my SocialLair group the other day:


So you are notorious in the copywriting world…. I kinda like that lol 


I shared your parallel welcome sequence in the gary halbert copy group and they kicked me out, and when I asked Bond Halbert why, this is the response I got: 


“You shared a post from a guy who is well known for bribing people to share his posts promoting his stuff in other groups. We are very picky about what we let slide. Give me some time to think about how to make this right because he is getting otherwise decent people to break rules for him.” 


“Well known!”


Well, now THAT is flattering 😂


I mean … we’re talking being personally blacklisted by Bond Halbert here. Son of the legendary Gary … and recipient of the famed Boron Letters.


That sure puts r/copywriting’s ban of me to shame!


[Part of this email content has been removed from the blog version.]


Daniel Throssell


I’ll admit, my views of r/copywriting have changed over time.

What used to be one of the worst copywriting groups on the Internet has — under the guidance of the new Mayor — cleaned up its act quite a lot. 

(I think I’m still technically banned though?)

Still … that’s not the end of the controversy.

Lately, there have been grumblings about me in other groups — like Stefan & Justin Talk Copy on Facebook, and Bond Halbert’s Facebook group — about banning me, too.

So perhaps this saga is not over yet … and there is more drama to come.

And if you’d like to watch it unfold, you’ll need to be on my email list.

Sign up for emails here.